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Post by heymatt on Mar 9, 2011 19:00:44 GMT -6
Daylight Saving Time begins March 13 in 2011
That means enough evening hours to restart the Flatrock's doubles on March 16th.
On March 16th 2011, civil twilight (darkness after sunset) is at 8:05, that should allow for a 5:45 p.m. start time for doubles. That is over two hours to get it completed.
Daylight Saving Time ends November 6. that would make the last doubles of the year on November 2, 2011. Seven months of evening disc golf, woohoo.
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Post by Hunt on Mar 10, 2011 9:58:00 GMT -6
True! Was going to announce @ Sunday dubs that we are going to start Wednesday dubs after time change. Which according to meteorologist M Young March 16th!
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Post by Hunt on Mar 13, 2011 15:01:23 GMT -6
Wednesday doubles @ Flatrocks will start 3/16/2011
TIME: 5:00PM
Later in season will be pushed slowly to 6pm
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Post by heymatt on Mar 13, 2011 17:55:30 GMT -6
You should start later. It doesn't get dark until 7:45-8 pm now
It is difficult for many people to make the 5 pm start time. Two hours is plenty of time for Wed dubs.
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Post by Hunt on Mar 13, 2011 22:10:33 GMT -6
In the years previous we have run out of daylight starting @ 5 even. Right now its pretty much a trial run. May change if left with enough daylight but furthest I would think is 530pm.
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Post by spud on Mar 13, 2011 23:42:10 GMT -6
Is it officially at 5:30?
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Post by jeffreybrock on Mar 14, 2011 3:34:12 GMT -6
Start time is this wednesday the 16th not the 26th.. And its at 5:00pm
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Post by heymatt on Mar 14, 2011 6:07:46 GMT -6
We run out of time in October, because the sun sets at 7 pm. in Oct. The jump in spring is much different than the jump in time in fall. Our start time in the fall on Sept 15 was 5:30 p.m. and the dusk was at 8:09 pm. Dusk on the March 16th is 8:05 p.m., that would allow the same start time as on Sept 15th. 2010. of 5:30 p.m. Make it easier on people to get to doubles. Make the start time 5:30 p.m.
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Post by Hunt on Mar 14, 2011 9:05:19 GMT -6
Not everyone gets on the forum and I told Sunday dubs crew starts @ 5pm
START TIME FOR WEDNESDAY DOUBLES 3-16-2011 IS:
5:00 PM EASTERN TIME
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Post by heymatt on Mar 14, 2011 12:34:33 GMT -6
5 pm central would be better
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Post by heymatt on Mar 16, 2011 20:59:10 GMT -6
Wednesday doubles at Flatrocks has been one of the most successful weekly events in Ohio. New players have been welcomed to the sport and paired with players that knew the game. Women were allowed to play without paying. Wednesday doubles were designed to encourage new players to try out the game in a low stress atmosphere with people who were happy to teach the game.
My name is Matt Young, I ran both the Sunday and the Wednesday double scrambles for one year. I ran the events until the LDGA was formed.
Wednesday doubles have become just another competition. It is now all about winning. It is all about the money.
Things that have changed:
We used to seed the top players so that two top players were not on the same team.
No longer are the top players seeded. Everyone is poured into a bucket and the minis are drawn out. This is great for the top players, because if they get another top player then they collect the top money. Doubles is about introducing new players to the sport, teaching those players the rules, and growing the sport.
What is the reason for stopping the seeding of better players? I was told that we don’t need to seed anymore, because everyone is getting so much better. I haven’t noticed the newest players instantly becoming better. Do you remember as a new player making some money back from the pool? The thrill for new players of getting a better chance of being paired with a better player is over. Now… what will new players will have to look forward to? They can look forward to a scowling partner who is unhappy that he is matched with a newbie. Doubles is and should be about teaching and encouraging the new players. Why even randomly pick match ups? Why not pick partners, and go for each other’s throat?
What else has changed?
Ace has been changed from 100 to 200 dollars.
Ace fund is doubled. Now the top players can share in the Ace funds to the exclusion of the other players. The first player sends disc and parks it next to the pin, now the other partner can shoot for the Ace. Why are we stopping here, why don’t we rescind the rule that the partners have to share the money? Let’s make doubles all about the money. Let’s raise the ACE fund to 500 dollars and encourage the pros to come down and take the purse that was bought and paid for by local players. I played with a player that had been to Flatrocks once before, he told me he came down from Columbus with two friends, just to try a get the ace fund. Hey thanks for the money bye-bye. It’s all about the money.
What else has changed?
The pool of women that play doubles has nearly disappeared.
One woman showed to play today. Women are not coming to the doubles. For the longest time we were having more and more women coming to the doubles, now they are an endangered gender. They don’t come. Why don’t they come? Even the wives’ of players don’t come much anymore. It is because we don’t encourage them to come.
What else has changed?
The start time is being held at 5 p.m., instead of using all available time and light. This one stumps me. Players have trouble getting to doubles when it starts this early. All teams were back from the course this week by 7 p.m. It was cloudy and it didn’t get completely dark until 8 p.m. Why start so early, when you can start later? Why not be inclusive?
We are discouraging women, new players, and people who work a job that ends at 5 p.m. We are not teaching the game to new players, we are less than welcoming, and we are encouraging out of town ace hunters.
There will be people who say to me, “If you don’t like it, then don’t come to doubles.” Of course I have that choice. But so does everyone else. And it is my guess that that is exactly what people will begin to say. People will say, I am tired of giving my money to the same 10 people every week. People will say, I play doubles on Wednesday and Sundays and I spend 350 dollars each year giving my money to the same ten players. It just doesn’t seem like the right thing to do. The new players will think this way because doubles has become a competition that stacks the deck against them.
Doubles will shrink, less people will come, less CTP money will get put into the club’s coffers. There are plenty of doubles events in Ohio that draw only a handful of people. Some of those events started out strong, but they have failed.
Competition is great, and it is fun. There is a time and a place for competition. Competition is not what Wednesday’s double scramble is about. Wednesday is for getting together with friends, and enjoying the game. Doubles scramble was never designed for serious competition.
By changing the format of the Doubles Scramble we have closed the door to welcoming new players to this sport. We will stop the growth of Lancaster disc golf.
We need to choose inclusion over exclusion.
Let me guess what is coming next. LDGA will raise the entry cost for playing in the Wednesday doubles. Mark my words.
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Post by Eastwood on Mar 17, 2011 3:27:00 GMT -6
"I ran the events until the LDGA was formed."
Think Chuck would agree w/that? (I don't)
Didn't read the whole post, but got the tone.
Hunt-what time did you guys get done last nite?
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Post by spud on Mar 17, 2011 10:52:22 GMT -6
Matt,
Your have some VERY valid points.
Boden,
Maybe not so many points (but I still missed you at dubs).
I, too, think having the ace fund at $200 is just asking for trouble.
I wouldn't want "out-of-towners" coming down just to take our cash.
If they want to come down to play and have fun, then that's fine.
It would be better to have more ace fund money in reserve than shooting our wad all at once.
Top players should be seeded.
I know that some people feel picked on if they're seeded,
but it is (or should be) all about getting newer players into the mix.
To anyone who was seeded and won with a newbie
knows what a rush that is to you and especially your newbie partner.
I would hope that all but the newest players have won something!
About the time . . .
Since it was already announced as starting at 5 next week (March 23)
start it then but I would start at 5:30 at the earliest the following week.
While I'm at it . . .
I think our feelings and opinions should be spoken and not shouted.
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Post by Hunt on Mar 17, 2011 19:06:27 GMT -6
Seeding: Doubles WILL continue to be seeded although there was a break during winter and Wednesday was supposed to be seeded fyi
Ace fund: Fifty bucks isn't enough to bring pros down to ''steal'' away plus a hundred a piece sounds like a better amount and is in no away designed to generate more players. Doubles numbers are already good, kind of thought it was a way to give back to the loyal LDGA doubles participants
Women: Attendance is always effected by the winter season
Cost:Will always continue to be the cheapest doubles in Ohio
Hope this was reassuring and also hope to attend the next couple dubs to insure they are ran correctly
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Post by Eastwood on Mar 18, 2011 10:27:18 GMT -6
Ace fund was has always been 150, not 100. 200 is not that big of a deal. Plus, it's a must split thing, whereby it's peer pressure to split at most others. Cherry pickers will go to Cols. and Delaware, both of which have paid out $500+ payouts within the last year, at least one of which was taken by a cherry pickin' flatrocker.
There's two dubs, wed. and sun. one will likely always be seeded. both don't need to be. It was set up initially like that since this town had not been exposed to disc golf. Since installation of the course in August of '04, disc golf is not exactly a new thing to the area. most new folks don't go to dubs, period. Until they get more comfortable. Folks who aren't shy will likely go there before others early in their career. btw, these are the only dubs I've ever seen seeded consistently. Have played in lots of places too. It's a nice thing to do it, despite it being more work for the TD. Dubs can be anything the club wants it to be. I'd appreciate a high entry fee, high payout dubs, no seeding, bring your own partner format. But that's just me. I'd also like to see a worst shot dubs. I'm OK w/messing w/the format weekly, depending upon who's running it. TD makes the call, after all, they do all the unpaid work. I'm easy on the format and appreciate the folks who put it on. Again, it's nice that they do a seeded thing, I've never seen that anywhere else. Anywhere.
I've never thought it's all about the money. Are you kidding? Anyone depending on doing anything besides buying a lunch with it is hurting. Only complaints I've heard regarding money is waiting around 45 mins for folks to get in, only to get $2 back. Have never heard anyone complain about the entry fee.
The start time shouldn't be a big stumper, since it's been that way since inception 5 years ago. If you guys jog the course like it sounds like you did Wed., yes, you can get done faster. We all know it starts late, and there's usually a few stragglers. I've left the house, played a round, and been back in an hour w/o it feeling fast, but we know that's not happening during a typical dubs. It's a social thing as much as anything. I can't recall getting out of there much before 1:30 for the 11am Sun. dubs for a while, although I'm not usually in a hurry. I will say I think Wed. and Sun. should be diff. formats, not the exact same thing. We do have a lot of much better players locally, (thanks to the folks who built the course and started the club and associated activities) and perhaps those folks, and there is a core crowd of them, would appreciate something more competitive, or higher payout, or something. We've got a good format, but sometimes it seems stale.
We are less than welcoming? I disagree.
And raising prices is an issue that's been discussed for years, so yes, don't be surprised if it does change. It could be raised 33.33333 percent and it would still be the cheapest doubles in the state. Go around and play some other doubles somewhere like at Nelsonville, Newark, Huntington, Ashland, Cols., Delaware, Tiffin, Dayton, Cincy, Tn., Tx., Fla., La., Ca., etc...then tell me how the experience compares. I've played at all those places in the last two years, we run a fine program at Flatrocks. We are welcoming, it is cheap, it is fair, and it's fairly well run. We have more women at our Wed. evenings (once the 6pm time kicks in) than anywhere I've ever been. It's the only place I've ever been where women have been able to play for free, and that's been the case since it started.
It sounds like since Hunt had other duties and Jason ended up running it (he was scrambling, the day before I had told him I could run it but forgot I had to work late, and although he didn't take me up on it at the time, he stopped by to see if I could run it, but he stopped by late Wed. afternoon). I was glad Detroit stepped up, although it sounds like he didn't worry about seeding. Whatever format is used, it should be consistent, and should be pre-announced if it changes, so folks can make a decision w/o having to drive there to find out what the deal is.
I believe the rules for doubles are posted on the board, and perhaps on this electronic board too. If they change, I expect the written rules to change with it.
And Spud, who's shouting? Did I miss something, or was that a prequalifier to be able to post in this thread?
One last thing, anyone who has any desire to TD the dubs, feel free to step up. And a big shout out to those who have donated their valuable time to TD so that others may play w/o constraints, like Custer, Boyer, Young, Hunt, Detroit, Wine, Cody, Ladroga, Kenny, & Travis and no doubt a few others I've missed. This disc golfer appreciates all those unpaid volunteers. It's a huge part of this sport. On a completely unrelated note, what happened to the annual players party last year? Will the club make up for it w/an epic bash this year? Tholse were quality affairs in years past.
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